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Forum > Okrogla miza > filozofija: zakaj živimo? Registriraj se
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animeguy

Uporabnik

Poslano: 05.05.2004 14:41:23 | Citiraj
Sm opazu da na temle forumu praktično ni filozofskih tem, kar rahlo pogrešam, zato sm sam dodal eno. Tori, kva mislte? Zakaj živimo? Zdele nimam cajta, da bi napisu svojo teorijo, tko da jutr...
Mi je pa resno žu da ni filozofskih tem, saj se da preko teh res lepo spoznat človeka in njegov odnos do raznoraznih stvari... v tem primeru življenja...

in this world is man's destiny controlled by some transcidental entity or law? is it the hand of god, hovering abouve? at least, it is true, that man has no controll... even over his own will.
Rincewind

Uporabnik

Poslano: 05.05.2004 16:56:19 | Citiraj
hmmm...

js živim zato da igram kitaro, grem vsake tolko cajta vn s prijatelji, preberem kakšno dobro knjigo, dobro jem, pijem... skratka uživam :)

zate pa za druge pa nevem :)

Skatey

Admin

Poslano: 05.05.2004 17:36:10 | Citiraj
Uf zakaj živimo, to si dal pa eno tako globoko temo za razpravljati :)

Lahko jo začnemo gledati na več koncih, preteklost, sedanjost, prihodnost.

Živimo zaradi preteklosti to je sigurno, brez različnih vplivov iz preteklosti ne bi delali stvari, ki jih danes kaj šele obstajali. Zdej spet je ena lepa teorija, ki smo jo gledal pri biologiji in je ta, da smo mi dejansko nastali po enem velikem naključju. Če se meteorit ne bi zaletel ravno v naš planet Zemljo in bi se v kakšen drug, bi bili danes mi še vedno planet brez ozračja mrtev le z raznimi tektonskimi premiki. Tako pa se je ustvarilo ozračje, ter pač posledično vse ostale stvari. Seveda je napredek bil sigurno spet sklep naklučij, vendar bodimo srečni, da smo danes tu kjer smo.

Potem živimo sigurno za sedanjost. Predajamo se užitkom, ki nas zadovoljijo le trenutno, le malo stvari v življenju je, ki nas osrečijo za dalj časa. Vedno znova moramo najti stvar za katero živiš - tisti trenutek, čas - ko pa je ni več zopet iščemo novo. Živimo za sedanjost.

Prihodnost. Vsi se sigurno sprašujemo kako bo čez toliko in toliko let. Seveda lahko s svojimi trenutnimi in bodočimi dejanji tudi spremenimo prihodnost. Seveda je zopet vmes cel kup naklučij in obstaja nešteto različnih možnosti prihodnosti. Katera pa bo taprav, le tista katero bomo ustvarili skupaj sedaj za naprej :)

hmm.. ja sj vem, mau sm zabluziu ^_^ sej kasneje se kej vec, ko bom spet bolj normalno mislil :)

Sem pa v eni knjigi prebral en tak hud filozofski sestavek, ko bom mel kej cajta ga postam semle lahko, je res tak da mors pol kr razmislt :)

Design, creativity and Elephants. www.yukaii.com/blog
Smejko

Uporabnik

Poslano: 05.05.2004 20:47:14 | Citiraj
Torej .. vsekakor mnenja varirajo od posameznikov in to nebi smela monotona ter zgresena tema .. morda bi le lahko izpustil besedo filozofija .. sicer pa

Hja, definitvno je eden od razlogov za zivljenje spolnost, namrec ze od praveka je vsem znano, da brez tega nebi bilo reprodukcije in bi cloveska rasa preprosto izumrla. Zal pa se v zadnjih letih prepogosto dogaja, da je sex le se igra in sploh ne sluzi prvotnemu namenu matere narave, za primer bi lahko podali celotno slovensko prebivalstvo, cigar naravni prirastek je negativen..

Ena od moznosti je tudi, da zivimo za nacelo "Carpe diem" oz. po nase uzij dan, da preprosto pocnemo kar se nam zahoce v nekih normalnih mejah seveda. Izkoristimo vsako priloznost, ki se nam zdi ugodna, pocnemo se tako abstraktne stvari samo zato, da uzivamo. To je seveda na momente super, pa vendar, ce bi vsi ziveli tako, svet nebi prisel prav dalec, nekoliko resnosti je le potrebno.

Morda smo le suznji neki visji sili in je zemlja le eden od planetov, ki so naseljeni z nami, primitivnimi bitji, ter nas nekdo opazuje.

Najbolj verjetna od vseh pa je po mojem mnenju za zivimo zaradi Maslowe hierarhije potreb in sicer nekateri po normalnem vrstnem redu, drugi pac ekstremno z izpuscanjem, fizioloskih potreb za doseganje visjih ciljev.
Torej fizioloske potrebe na kratko, zivimo zato, da se hranimo, dihamo, gledamo, izlocamo, razmnozujemo, ..
Nekoliko bolj zanimivo je z vidika psihosocialnih potreb.
Gotovo zivimo zato, da si ustvarimo varen dom, z druzino polno ljubezni in romantike, no vsaj nekateri.. Drugi toliko bolj hrepenijo po ugledu in spostovanju, ki si ga seveda pridobijo s pomocjo kariere/dejanj/doktorata ipd.., ki jih zelijo v zivljenju izpolniti.
Preprosto pa obstajajo tudi ljudje, ki jim je cilj zivljenja samoaktualizacija, ta izbira izmed vseh moznih se meni osebno zdi najbolj fina, namrec, ko dosezemo to, smo dosegli vse kar smo si zares zeleli, nekateri eno drugi drugo.

Varijant je seveda se premnogo..

Skatey:
Remember Yesterdayj
and think about tomorrowj
But you have to live today.
;)

Danes je dokaj akusticen dan.
Misak

Admin

Poslano: 06.05.2004 09:36:59 | Citiraj
Pa še moje mnenje:

Osebno menim, da živimo čisto iz samega naključja. Celotna človeška rasa in njegovi predhodniki so nastali samo zaradi kopice številnih naključij. Če bi čas še enkrat zavrteli nazaj, v čas ko je planet Zemlja nastala, bi pomoje evolucija ubrala čisto drugačno pot, kot jo poznamo mi sedaj. In po vsej verjetnosti, danes ne bi gledali v monitor;)
Kar se tiče filozofije o življenju....dokler ne odrasteš si misliš kako lep je ta svet, ko pa "dozoriš", vidiš kako krut je ta svet. Zdej je samo odvisno od tega, koliko debel ščit imaš, da preživiš v takem svetu. Upajmo, da bo v naslednjem življenju bolje!


SloCartoon.net
animeguy

Uporabnik

Poslano: 06.05.2004 10:25:37 | Citiraj
no, no, lepi odgovori.... sam zgleda, da sm uprašanje mau zgrešu: kaj je po vašem mnenju smisel življenja?

po moje je tkole: človek živi, da bi si postavljal visoke, a realne cilje in jih tudi dosegal. In če bi to bilo tako, bi bil svet lepši: vsi bi imeli dosti denarja, če bi sploh ta obstajal, posledično bi se zmanjšalo število kaznivih dejanj in umorov (tam nekje, okoli 99,8 procentov), saj se večina teh, tudi umori, dogajajo zaradi denarja. Nadalje bi moral vsak človek imeti poleg primarnega cilja tudi sekundarne; če mu pri primarnih spodleti. Grozot bi bilo veliko manj itd. Psihopatov praktično ne bi bilo, saj bi se način vzogeje povsem spremenil in morda celo ne bi več poznali vojne.

Tako, to je moje mišljenje. Kaj pa mislite vi?

in this world is man's destiny controlled by some transcidental entity or law? is it the hand of god, hovering abouve? at least, it is true, that man has no controll... even over his own will.
EvilChick

Uporabnik

Poslano: 06.05.2004 10:32:05 | Citiraj
Človk se tapru rodi, nato trpi neki cajta , malo kasneje začne uživat (naša generacija vrjetn tega ne bo dočakala-penzije namreč) in nakar umre

A se je kdo sprašval kdaj Zakuva mamo tako kožo k mamo pa iz česa pravzaprav je sestavljena Pa zakuva je sploh vesolje

. . : Le kaj je lahko bolj konstruktivnega kot ena dobra debata med prijatelji? : . .
uri

Admin

Poslano: 06.05.2004 12:06:12 | Citiraj
Osebni mi je najbolj vsec, kar je povedal Skatey, ki ni, nasprotno njegovem mnenju, cisto nic zabluzil.

Osebno pa sem v obdobju, ko znova tehtam poglede in smisle, ki sem jih izoblikoval v mladih letih. Svet bi bil lepsi, ce bi vsak pocel tisto, kar najbolj zna, ne da bi s tem skodil soljudem, zivalim in naravi. Prevec ljudu pocne nekaj, kar mislijo, da morajo poceti ali le slepo sledijo drugim (politikom, verskim voditeljem, nadrejenim, starsem...). Zdaj pa tudi vedno bolj konkretno razmisljam o lastnih otrocih, kar cloveku vzame kaksnih 20 let zivljenja, cemu se pa potem posvetit, je pa spet novo vprasanje.

In kot je rekel Douglas Adams je smisel zivljenja 42. Kaj je s tem misljeno poskusajo razlozit z The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything. Konkretno oz. resno o tem vprasanju pa razglabjajo pod Meaning_of_life. Zanimivo branje je tudi FAQ about The Meaning of Life.


. Uri .
animeguy

Uporabnik

Poslano: 06.05.2004 12:32:37 | Citiraj
me zelooooo veseli, da sva podobnega mnenja uri.. da bi moru člouk delat kar hoče, ne da bi s tem škodvu drugim.....

in this world is man's destiny controlled by some transcidental entity or law? is it the hand of god, hovering abouve? at least, it is true, that man has no controll... even over his own will.
Meraxes

Uporabnik

Poslano: 06.05.2004 14:24:52 | Citiraj
Moje osebno mnjenje se najbolj približuje, kar je Skatey napisal.
Heh sem želel omeniti Douglasa Adamsa in njegovega vodiča, pa vidim,da me je Uri prehitel No, tudi jaz priporočam tisto branje.

LP
Skatey

Admin

Poslano: 06.05.2004 23:34:56 | Citiraj
hmmm, evo kokr sem rekel, en lep odlomk iz ene fajn knjige k jo zele berem. Si pa morte uzet cajt za branje, sam sem prebral poglavje 2x, da sem se dobro prebil skozi.


Yukio Mishima – Spring Snow

It was Honda, then, who spoke first, wishing only to find a subject that had no bearing on the issue between them.
½You know, I've been thinking a lot about personality lately. Take the times we live in, this school, this society – I feel alien to them all. At least I would like to think I did. And at the same time same can be said for you too.½
½Yes, of course, ½ Kiyoaki replied, his tone as uninterested and aloof as ever, yet with a sweetness that was very much in character.
½But let me ask you this: what happens after a hundred years? Without us having any say in the matter, all our ideas will be lumped together under the heading, ‘The Thought of the Age.’ Take the history of art, for example: it proves my point irrefutably, whether you like it or not. Each period has its own style, and no artist living in a particular era can completely transcend that era’s style, whatever his individual outlook.½
½Does our age have its style too?½
½I think I’d be more inclined to say that the style of the Meiji era is still dying. But how would I know? To live in the midst of era is to be oblivious to its style. You and I, you see, must be immersed in some style of living or other, but we’re like goldfish swimming around in a bowl without ever noticing it. Take yourself: yours is a world of feeling. You appear different from most people. And you yourself are quite sure that you have never allowed your personality to be compromised. However, there is absolutely no way of proving that. The testimony of your contemporaries has no value whatever. Who knows? It may just be that your world of feeling represents the style of this era in its purest form. But then again, there’s no way of knowing.½
½Well, then, who does decide?½
½Time. Time is what matters. As time goes by, you and I will be carried inexorably into the mainstream of our period, even though we’re unaware of what it is. And later, when they say that young men in the early Taisho era thought, dressed, talked, in such and such a way, they’ll be talking about you and me. We’ll all be lumped together. You detest that bunch on the kendo team, don’t you? You despise them?½
½Yes,½ Kiyoaki said, uncomfortably aware that the cold was beginning to penetrate the seat of his trousers, but gazing nevertheless at some green camellia leaves beside the frame of the arbor. Freshly bared by the melting snow, they were gleaming brightly. ½Yes, I not only dislike them, I despise them.½
Taking his perfunctory reply in his stride, Honda went on: ½All right, then, just imagine this if you can. In a few decades, people will see you and the people you despise as one and the same, a single entity. Your slow-witted friends – with their sentimentality, their vicious narrow-mindedness that condemns as effeminate anyone who is not like themselves, their harassment of the underclassmen, their fanatical worship of credible satisfaction from sweeping the ground every morning around the sakaki planted by the Meiji Emperor – you with all your sensitivity will be seen cheek-by-jowl with these people when they stop to think about our times in years to come. You see, this is the easiest way to establish the essence of our era – to take the lowest common denominator. Once the churning water has settled to a calm surface, you can see the rainbow oil slick floating there. And that’s the way it will be. After we’re all dead, it will be easy to analyze us and isolate our basic elements for everyone to see. And of course this essence, the thought that is foundation of our era, will be considered quite benighted a hundred years from now. And you and I have no way of escaping the verdict, no way to prove we didn’t share the discredited views of our contemporaries. And what standard will history apply to that outlook? What do you think? The thoughts of the geniuses of our age? Of great men? Not at all. Those who will come after us and decide what was in our minds will adopt the criterion of team. In other words, they’ll seize upon the most primitive and popular credos of our day. You see every era has always been characterized solely in terms of such idiocies.½
Kiyoaki was not sure where this was taking Honda, but as he listened, a germ of thought began to grow in his mind. By now several of their classmates were to be seen at the open windows of their second-floor classroom. The windows of the other rooms were shut, reflecting the glare of the morning sun and the brilliant blue of the sky. A familiar morning scene. When he thought of the event of the previous day, the morning of the snowstorm, he felt as if he had been drawn unwillingly from a dark world of sensuous excitement into the clear, bright courts of reason.
½Well, that’s history,½ he said. He was embarrassed by the immaturity of his remarks in contrast to Honda’s, but he was finally making an effort to come to grips with the other’s thought. ½In other words, no matter what we think, or hope for, or feel – all that has not the slightest bearing on the course of history? Is that what you mean?½
½That’s it exactly. Europeans belive that a man like Napoleon can impose his will on history. We Japanese think the same of the men like your grandfather and his contemporaries who brought about the Meiji Restoration. But is that really true? Does history ever obey the will of men? Looking at you always makes me ponder that question. You’re not a great man and you’re not a genius either. But, nonetheless, you have one characteristic that sets you quite apart: you have no trace whatever of willpower. And so I am always fascinated to think of you in relation to history.½
½Are you being sarcastic?½
½No, not a bit. I’m thinking in terms of unconscious participation in history. For example, let’s say that I have willpower –½
½You certainly have.½
½Say that I want to alter the course of history. I devote all my energies and resources to this end. I use every ounce of strength I posses to bend history to my will. Say I posses the prestige and authority so necessary to bring this about. None of this would ensure that history proceeded according to my wishes. Then, on the other hand, perhaps a hundred, two hundred, even three hundred years later, history might veer abruptly to take a course that was consonant with my vision and ideals – and this without my having had anything whatever to do with it. Perhaps society would assume a form that was the exact replica of my dreams of a hundred or two hundred years before; history, enjoying the new glory that had been my vision, would smile at me with cool condescension and mock my ambition. And people would say: ‘Well, that’s history.’½
½But there is such a thing as the time being ripe for everything, isn’t there?½ asked Kiyoaki. ½Your vision’s time would finally have come, that’s all. Maybe it wouldn’t even take as long as a hundred years; maybe thirty or fifty. That sort of thing often happens. And perhaps even after your death, your will would serve as an invisible guideline, unknown to anyone, that would help bring about what you wanted to accomplish in your lifetime. Maybe if someone like you had never lived, history would never have taken such a turn, no matter how long it lasted.½
Even though such cold, uncongenial abstractions were a struggle for him, Kiyoaki felt stirred by a certain warmth, an excitement that he knew he had Honda to thank for. He was reluctant to acknowledge satisfaction from such a source. But as he looked around the white-carpented school grounds, with the bare branches of the trees casting shadows over the snow-covered flowerbeds, and the clear sound of trickling water in his ears, he knew he was happy that Honda had started this discussion. Even though he must have known that he was still engrossed in the memory of happiness and fascination of the day before, Honda had chosen to ignore it, a decision that seemed appropriate to the purity of the snow around them. At that moment, some of it slid off the roof, baring a few square feet of wet tile, gleaming black.
½And so,½ continued Honda, ½if society turned out as I wanted it to after a hundred years, you’d call that an accomplishment?½
½It must be.½
½Whose accomplishment?½
½That of your will.½
½You’re joking. I’d be dead. As I just told you, all this came about without my having had anything to do with it.½
½Well, can’t you say that it’s the accomplishment of the will of history then?½
½So history has a will, eh? It’s always dangerous to try to personify history. As far as I’m concerned, history has no will of its own and, furthermore, it hasn’t the least concern for process, you can’t talk about accomplishments. And all the so-called accomplishments of history prove it. They’re no sooner achieved than they begin to crumble away. History is a record of destruction. One must always make room for the next ephemeral crystal. For history, to build and to destroy are one and the same thing.
½I am fully aware of all this. Although I understand it, I cannot be like you and stop being a man of determination. I suppose it’s probably a compulsion in my character. No one can say for certain, but I will say this much: any will has as its essence the desire to influence history, only that they try to. Then, too, some forms of will are bound up with destiny, even though this concept is anathema to the will.
½But in the long run, all human will is doomed to frustration. It’s a matter of course that things turn out contrary to your intentions. And what conclusion does a Western draw from this? He says: ‘My will was the sole rational force involved. Failure came about by chance.’
½To speak of chance is to negate the possibility of any law of cause and effect. Chance is the one final irrationality acceptable to the free will.
½Without the concept of chance, you see, the Western philosophy of free will could never have arisen. Chance is the crucial refuge of the will. And without it the very thought of gambling would be inconceivable, just as the Westerner has no other way of rationalizing the repeated setbacks and frustrations that he must endure. I think that this concept of chance, of gamble, is the very substance of the God of Europeans, and so they have a deity whose characteristics are derived from that refuge so vital to free will, namely chance – the only sort of God who would inspire the freedom of human will.
½But what would happen if we were to deny the existence of chance completely? What would happen if – no matter what the victory or defeat – you had to exclude utterly all possible role of chance in it? In that case, you’d be destroying all refuge of free will. do away with chance and you undermine the props under the concept of will.
½Picture a scene like this: it’s a square at midday. The will is standing there all alone. He pretends that he is remaining upright by virtue of his own strength, and hence he goes on deceiving himself. The sun beats down. No trees, no grass. Nothing whatever in the huge square to keep him company but his own shadow. At that moment, a thundering voice comes down from the cloudless sky above: ‘Chance is dead. There’s no such thing as chance. Hear me, Will: you have lost your advocate forever.’ And with that, the Will feels his substance begin to crumble and dissolve. His flesh rots and falls away. In an instant his skeleton is laid bare, a thin liquid spurts from it, and the bones themselves lose their solidity and begin to disintegrate. The Will still stands with his feet planted firmly on the ground, but his final effort is futile. For at that very moment, the bright, glaring sky is rent apart with a terrible roar, and the God of Inevitability stares down through the chasm.
½But I cannot help trying to conjure up an odious face for this dreadful God, and this weakness is doubtless due to my own bent toward voluntarism. For if Chance ceases to exist, then Will becomes meaningless – no more significant than a speck of rust on the huge chain of cause and effect that we participate in history, and that’s to have no will at all – to function solely as shining, beautiful atom, eternal and unchanging. No one should look for any other meaning in human existence.
½You are not likely to see things this way. I wouldn’t expect you to subscribe to such philosophy. The only things you do put any faith in – and that without much thought – are your own good looks, your changing moods, your individuality and – not your fixed character, but on the contrary, your very lack of it. Am I right?½
Kiyoaki could not manage an answer. For what of anything better, he smiled knowing that Honda was not trying to insult him.
½And that for me is the greatest riddle,½ said Honda, sighing so earnestly that it seemed almost comical. His breath became frosty cloud that hovered for a second in the clear morning air, and seemed to Kiyoaki to be a secret manifestation of Honda’s concern for him. Deep down inside him, his sense of happiness intensified.
The bell rang to announce the beginning of classes, and the two young man stood up. Just then, someone scooped up some of the snow piled on the second floor window ledges and threw down a snowball. It struck the path at their feet, in a burst of sparkling fragments.

(odlomek)


hehe upam na kasne komentarje pol

Design, creativity and Elephants. www.yukaii.com/blog
Preditcon

Uporabnik

Poslano: 08.05.2004 22:14:31 | Citiraj
Kakšne posebne filozofije glede bistva našega obstoja ni. Ta namreč ne obstaja, kakor ne obstaja nikakršna višja sila, posmrtno življenje ali karkoli v tej smeri. S tem se človek ne more sprijazniti, čeprav so to dejstva. To je namreč v popolnem nasprotju z enim od naših osnovnih nagonov - pridobiti nedosegljivo. Čeprav je ta naša lasnost kriva za naš napredek, je že v osnovi napačna, defektivna, neracionalna. Skupaj z drugimi sestavlja vzorec obnašanja, ki ga zasledimo pri najenostavnejših bitjih, kot so recimo virusi. Med nami in njimi ni velike razlike. Oboji obstajamo, da zagotovimo obstoj svojih potomcev. Pri tem močno, bolj kot katerokoli drugo znano bitje, vplivamo na naše okolje in vse kar se znajde v njem - v večini primerov negativno. Naš obstoj je pač prioriteta. Če kdo nastrada v tem procesu, kaj čemo.. Edina razlika med virusom in človeško raso je ta, da se mi zavedamo vsega kar počnemo. Tukaj šele nastopa filozofiranje. Izmišljujemo si razne stvari, ki bi upravičile druge stvari, pa naj bodo še tako absurdne, v bistvu pa si zatiskamo oči pred resnico. Človekov obstoj je popolnoma nepomemben, nepotreben. Saj ste že nekje napisali, da je nastal po naključju. Jaz imam za to naključje drugačno ime - napaka.
Edino kar me zadržuje tukaj, je strah pred tistim kar sem že zgodaj spoznal. Na koncu ne ostane od tebe nič, popolnoma nič. Tudi spomin nate sčasoma zbledi, izgine s tistimi, ki so te poznali, a tega nikomur niso razkrili. Edino kar imamo je to, kar imate vsi, ki to berete. Trenutek, ki lahko že v nasednjem pomeni vaš konec. Trenutek, ki ga je treba izkoristiti. K sreči, če temu lahko tako pravim, si lahko te trenutke nekako popestrite in si tako spet prekrijete resnico z debelo odejo. S tem ni nič narobe. Ravno obratno. Če tega ne bi počeli, ne bi tako dolgo zdržali.

Spet sem porabil nekaj tistih trenutkov za nekaj brezpredmetnega. Če je pa tako fino, brainstormat bedaste izjave. Že čez pol ure bom na to pozabil in se spet prepustil laži v kateri obstajam in s katero si ustvarjam lasten smisel življenja. (to je point, zadnji stavek. V resnici sem hotu napisat samo tole, pol sem pa kr neki bluzit začel iz čistega dolgočasja, pa da bi s čim prostor zapolnil)



Low level anime freak
Rincewind

Uporabnik

Poslano: 09.05.2004 01:25:06 | Citiraj
men se zdi 42 še najbol smiseln



Odgovor je popravil Rincewind - 09.05.2004 01:25:43
animeguy

Uporabnik

Poslano: 10.05.2004 14:24:47 | Citiraj
prediTCon (upam da sm prou spellu...), tole me pa spominja mau na filozofijo mr.shimtha iz matrice... sam koko veš, da ni višje sile? Res, ni dokazov, da obstaja, ampak tudi ni dokazov da ne obstajajo. Sicer so nekateri t.i. dokazi, da obstaja, samo jim osebno ne verjamem....

Pa še enkat, spreminjam uprašanje: kaj je SMISEL življenja?

in this world is man's destiny controlled by some transcidental entity or law? is it the hand of god, hovering abouve? at least, it is true, that man has no controll... even over his own will.
Misak

Admin

Poslano: 10.05.2004 14:30:53 | Citiraj
Smisel življenja je, da se naučiš ljubiti, da najdeš podobno dušo. Sicer pa življenje ni samo eno, sem prepričan, da se tvoja duša po smrti preseli drugam in da nadaljuje svoje "življenje".

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Preditcon

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Poslano: 10.05.2004 15:04:46 | Citiraj
Animeguy: jaz sem samo realno razmišljal. Zakaj bi moral navesti dokaze za NEobstoj nečesa? To je napačno razmišljanje. Čez svoje celotno življenje že poslušam same zgodbice, dokazov pa nikjer. Jaz sem otrok znanosti - ni dokaza, ne obstaja. Rad bi verjel, da nekaj je in da nekaj bo, ampak temu pač ni tako. Ta misel, o preprostosti našega bistva (ki ga po mojem v bistvu sploh ni), je bila ustvarjena že davno pred Matrico in jaz se z njo strinjam.
Mogoče res ne bi smel reči, da so tisto dejstva.

Rad bi verjel Misaku, a pač ne morem. To ni naš smisel..to so naši najosnovnejši nagoni (če se resno poškoduješ jih lahko celo pozabiš...ali bi lahko svoj smisel pozabil?) To ima vsak. Smisel je, če sploh je, nekaj višjega celo od ljubezni. Nekaj skupnega vsem, ne samo človeku, tudi ostalim bitjem. Ljubezni pa ne premorejo vsi (ne govorim o sebi...tak phucked up pa že spet nisem).

Low level anime freak
animeguy

Uporabnik

Poslano: 10.05.2004 17:59:07 | Citiraj
kokr jz vem so mnogi znanstveniki prou zarad znanosti ratal verni..... preveč je stvari, k jih človek ne more razložit... k jih logika ne more razložit. Npr. kako je nastalo vesolje. Z velikim pokom, toda kako je nastal veliki pok? In kako se je zgodilo, da se je iz niča, ki je bil nekoč, če lahko temu neloč rečemo, saj takrat verjetno še časa ni bilo, nastalo vso širno vesolje? Kako lahko elektroni preskakujejo orbitale? ipd. Kje ima odgovor na to znanost?

Res, vesolje bi se lahko materailiziralo iz energije, podobno kot nastane elektron pri rastlinah iz fotosinteze iz svetlobe, a takrat še ni bilo prostora, zato ni mogla obstajati niti energija.... No, vidš, pa smo najdl še eno fino temo za filozofiranje....

Kaj je po moje smisel življenja, pa si napiši par postov gor....

Nekateri znanstveniki trdijo celo, da je smisel življenja zapeljevanje in osvajanje... in da ves naš intelekt & stuff izvira iz te preproste potrebe. kuga pa mislte o tem?

p.s.: preditcon, ne trdim da je moje mnenje pravilno in tvoje napačno, prosim, ne razumi me tako.... samo sbvoje mnenje sem izrazil. Prav mogoče je, da se jaz motim in imaš ti prou.

in this world is man's destiny controlled by some transcidental entity or law? is it the hand of god, hovering abouve? at least, it is true, that man has no controll... even over his own will.
Vagabond

Uporabnik

Poslano: 10.05.2004 17:59:47 | Citiraj
Preditcon, sklepam, da verjames v to, da imas mozgane. A pa si jih ze videl? Ne. Tudi ce si videl mozgane po televiziji, to niso bili tvoji mozgani. In kdo pravi, da so jih sploh nasli v glavi cloveka. Ok, to je sicer pretiravanje, a cloveku je pac skupno, da verjame. Ni ga cloveka, ki ne verjame prav v nicesar. Ti verjames v moc svojih mozganov, ceprav moras priznati, da so le skupek vlazne karfjole nagravzne barve. Znanstvenik zaupa avtomobilu, ker ve kako avto deluje. Isto z letalom. To je znanstvenik. Ko imas nekaj, za kar ne ves kako deluje, takrat verjames, da to deluje. In povej mi, kako delujejo mozgani?

"If it is not loud, it is not filmmusic."
Rincewind

Uporabnik

Poslano: 10.05.2004 18:25:30 | Citiraj
smisu mojga življenja je da mi ni dolgčas

Skatey

Admin

Poslano: 10.05.2004 19:33:20 | Citiraj
hmm.. preditcon a si slisal kdaj. da je teorija oz. izrek splošno priznan, če se ga da dokazati na podlagi dokazov. Vendar teorija velja dokler je kdo ne ovrže in se potem nova teorija sprejme kot splošno priznano dejstvo.

Recimo. včasih so verjeli, da je zemlja okrogla. Bilo je splošno priznano dejstvo. Vse ki so trdili nasprotno so sežgali na grmadi. Dokler tudi sami, znotraj svojih vrst niso sprejeli svoje napake. Takrat je postalo splošno priznano dejstvo, da je zemlja okrogla.

Torej kaj potlej, do danes se ve le, da imajo vse živali en prvoten cilj. To je nadaljevanje vrste. Na to pogojuje en kup dejavnikov, selekcija, speciacija, mutacije, narava, človek. To je sedaj splošno priznano dejstvo, pri človeku je še več teorij.

Če ti lahko ovržeš to osnovno teorijo, nadaljevanje vrste. In dokažeš da je kaj drugega. Sem prepričan, da boš svetovno priznan znanstvenik in te bodo vsi častili. Tako kot naprimer bo tisti, ki bo prvi pogruntal kaj je sprožilo to, da so se celice začele povezovati med seboj.

Eh imam že celo leto genetiko pri biologiji in pač padeš mau pod vpliv, ko poslušaš vse razlage, tudi o evoluciji.

Design, creativity and Elephants. www.yukaii.com/blog
fico

Uporabnik

Poslano: 10.05.2004 20:12:42 | Citiraj
evo da se jst mal zabljuzim kle... za moje pojme je smisel zivljenja zdaj, ta trenutek ko sm kle...in v splosnem jst zivi za ta trenutek in nic drugega...preteklost je za mano...bile so napake na katerih sm se marsikaj naucil in to znanje uporabim za ta trenutek....kar se pa tice prihodnosti...se ne oziram na njo...lahko da me nasleden trenutek ze pobere in zato ni smisla da bi delal nevem kako velikih planov v naprej...se posebej v danasnjih casih ko se usem nekam mudi...usak bi rad nekako na hitr dosegu svojo sreco in brezglavo drvijo vsi proti neznanemu cilju ki so si ga zastavili ceprav ne vejo ce ga bodo kdajkoli dosegli...zivljenje moras jamati kot nekej samovnemega ker skratka to tudi je...jst se ne obremenjujem s tem kako smo nastali...pac nekej se je zgodilo in kle smo..jebat ga...kar je blo je blo...vazno pa je da vem da obstajam in da uzivam v teh trenutkih ki mi jih zivljenje ponudi..in seveda probam to v polni meri izkoristet...kaj pa je komu polna mera je pa spet drugo uprasanje...usak clovek zna sam razmislat in zato ima tudi svoje predstave o sreci in idealih...

no zdej pa se nekej glede posmrtnega zivljenja in podobnih stvari...
jst ne vrjamem v popolnoma nic kar se tega tice...vrjamem pa v nekaj....clovek sam posebi je ogromen skupek neke enrgije...in kot smo se usi ucili pr fiziki...energija enostavno ne more kar izgint....kar pomen da ko clovesko telo umre...ta energija nekam mora it...kam gre ne vem...in se tud ne ubadam s tem uprasanjem...ampak dejstvo je da nekam gre...izgint ne more...ker te energije je prevec....ce si samo predstavlase...ena mislm je ogromno energije...clovek ima pa neskoncno misli....enostavno to ne more iti v nic

evo...da sm se jst mal nabljuzil o tej temi

freak on a leash
Preditcon

Uporabnik

Poslano: 12.05.2004 10:41:20 | Citiraj
Animeguy: jst ti nisem nikoli hotel dopovedat, da mam jst prav, ti pa ne. To so moja trenutna prepričanja. Če misliš, da sem te hotu..ne vem..užalit al neki s svojim besedičenjem, se motiš..
Pa saj ni treba verjeti v nekaj, kar še ni dokazano..ravno to mislim. Verjamem samo dejstvom (ne v dejstva, dejstvom!).

Vragabond: To, da možgani obstajajo, je že dejstvo. Jaz sem govoril o obstoju.. Kako neka stvar deluje je pa čisto druga žvau.

Skatey: obravnava teorij je stvar posameznika.. V njih lahko verjameš ali pa tudi ne. Nekatere se slišijo prav lepo, a raje ostanem pri dokazanih dejstvih (čeprav je tudi večina mojih prepričanj, ki jih nisem pisal tu, postavljena na majavih tleh), čeprav je tudi nekaj stvari tako očitnih, da dokaza skorajda ne potrebujejo. Praviš, da so "okroglost" Zemlje ljudje sprejeli kot dejstvo, prej pa so nasprotno misleče zažigali na grmadah. Le kaj je ljudstvo, ki je tako trdno verjelo, da je Zemlja ploščata, navedlo k temu, da so priznali svojo napako? A so bili mogoče to očitni dokazi tega, ali pa je bil pač trend verjet, da je Zemlja okrogla... (sam res ne vem ničesar glede tega, a vseen...) In nikoli nisem spodbijal trditve, da je smisel nadaljevanje vrste...še več, celo podprl jo.

Fico: ko prdneš, se tudi sprosti energija, če se ne motim... Kaj je tista energija...kaj te vem.. Od tebe ne ostane torej nič, razen tiste energije (ki pa je med drugim lahko tudi prdec)


Low level anime freak
animeguy

Uporabnik

Poslano: 12.05.2004 10:48:57 | Citiraj
sej sm se bl bu da bi jez tebe užalu.... sej ti mene nisi.

in this world is man's destiny controlled by some transcidental entity or law? is it the hand of god, hovering abouve? at least, it is true, that man has no controll... even over his own will.
BuDi

Admin

Poslano: 12.05.2004 12:02:02 | Citiraj
Vprašanje zakaj živimo je vsaj po moji filozofiji precej mimo, pač ... živimo, brez posebnega razloga. Ali - neumno vprašanje - neumen odgovor (Addams: Štoparski vodnik po galaksiji)

Osebno se bolj sprašujem kako osmisliti pač dano življenje. Premnogo ljudi življenja ne zna osmisliti ali pa se vsaj ne zna prilagoditi danem trenutku. Vse prevečkrat so posledice samomori, depresije ali vsaj močna zagrenjenost. (Yoda: pain, anger, suffering)

In kako osmisliti življenje ? - Osnova je v ljubezni... po Minattijevem načelu. Ostalo pride zraven.

Še to... osmislitev življenja ne pride iz okolice, gole usode ali naklučij (na kar mnogi čakajo) - ampak samo in zgolj iz nas samih.
BuDi

Admin

Poslano: 12.05.2004 16:48:06 | Citiraj
aja, zraven paše še "think postive!"
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